Question about necros with shield - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

snaek · Apr 30, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

What the damage reduction is percentage wise is also variable on what the base armor of the profession we are talking about is.

no, kale ironfist is rite

+40al is +50%dmg reduction no matter wut ur current al is

i.e. a 60al +40al bonus target eats a flare @ 60dmg and it will reduce it to 30dmg
a 80al +40al bonus target eats a flare @ 60dmg, reduced to 46dmg (from natural al), then reduced to 23dmg (from +40al bonus)

(btw, those numbers r rough guesses)

The Meth · Apr 30, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

What the damage reduction is percentage wise is also variable on what the base armor of the profession we are talking about is.

Kale was correct, adding 40 armor will reduce damage by 50%, whether your original armor was 0 or 1000, discounting round off error of course. To find total damage reduction, you compare the total armor vs the base armor of 60, since 60 armor always takes 100% damage.

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 30, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I don't think I've ever seen someone weapon swap in RA or AB (not counting myself).

you need to ab with me then you can stop saying this

ontopic its a weapon swap for higher health/defense and lower energy

the low energy is "hide" your energy when you have pesky mesmers trying to steal/drain it all

HawkofStorms · Apr 30, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Kale was correct, adding 40 armor will reduce damage by 50%, whether your original armor was 0 or 1000, discounting round off error of course. To find total damage reduction, you compare the total armor vs the base armor of 60, since 60 armor always takes 100% damage.

That's the thing... it depends wheter or not you count the damage at 60 armor as the base 100% or calculate the percent lost as a ratio between variable base armor level. There are two different ways to calculate these percentages, one as an absolute and another that is more relative. I was refering to the later while most people use the former.

Dark Kal · Apr 30, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Tai, that's...quite wrong...

Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp.

There are PvE players you know. PvE players do use melee weapons for the +5 energy and 20% longer enchants. PvE players also generally don't like swapping so the -5/20 mod will do fine. So no, Tai wasn't completely wrong.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 30, 2008, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

There are PvE players you know. PvE players do use melee weapons for the +5 energy and 20% longer enchants. PvE players also generally don't like swapping so the -5/20 mod will do fine. So no, Tai wasn't completely wrong.

Coincidentally, a lot of PvE players are pretty bad and/or lazy.
A staff is better for your enchanting set.
-5/20% is a terrible mod under any condition. +10 vs Fire or -2 enchanted are far better on a caster in PvE, even if you only have one shield.

Elder III · Apr 30, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Agreed -5/20% is good for only one thing: salvage it and sell it fast for profit.

Dark Kal · Apr 30, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Coincidentally, a lot of PvE players are pretty bad and/or lazy.
A staff is better for your enchanting set.
-5/20% is a terrible mod under any condition. +10 vs Fire or -2 enchanted are far better on a caster in PvE, even if you only have one shield.

No the staff is not always better since you won't be able to bring the shield/focus.
The -5/20% is not a bad mod either there are plenty of other damage types in PvE so your +10 vs fire will be doing nothing a lot of the time, and your -2 enchanted requires you to have atleast 1 enchant on you all the time which isn't practical for all caster classes either.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 30, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

No the staff is not always better since you won't be able to bring the shield/focus.

a 20/20/20 HCT/HSR/HCT staff is the best set for casting enchants - you get the most casting modifiers alongside
the +enchants mod. This is fact.

Quote:

The -5/20% is not a bad mod either

-5/20% is bad. It's really, totally, utterly shit - like sundering except, well... actually useless.

Quote:

there are plenty of other damage types in PvE so your +10 vs fire will be doing nothing a lot of the time, and your -2 enchanted requires you to have atleast 1 enchant on you all the time which isn't practical for all caster classes either.

vs Fire stops the biggest, meanest spells blowing you up. Far better than -5/20%, even if it's not applicable everywhere.

As for -2 enchants... "Hi, I'm a monk. I cast enchants on you"

Face it, -5/20 is horrible, end of. Unless you like monies - there's loads of clueless tards out there who want them.

Kale Ironfist · Apr 30, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50

I'd take a -2/enchanted because it's stronger and just as general use compared to -5/20%.

There is no good reason to take a -5/20%. In PvE, it's a lot easier to manipulate the conditions such that whatever inscription you use will always trigger, and in PvP, you can create as many off-hands as you need to fit every situation.

Tyla · Apr 30, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

The -5/20% Mod is pathetic.
Alex had it right on using the 10AL vs. Fire, there.

Plus, the 10AL vs. Fire is cheaper. Same for -2/Enchant.

And yeah, if there was no -50hp Cesta, the +5E/+20% wouldn't get used.
600HP / Smite > 55hp anyhow, and it's a stave for that mainly.

The Meth · Apr 30, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

-5/20% is only decent if you are criminally lazy and haven't learned to weapon swap. Not coincidentally, so is sundering.

.kitsune. · Apr 30, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

PvE players also generally don't like swapping so the -5/20 mod will do fine.

I know plenty of PvErs who weapon swap, even ones who have had no PvP experience whatsoever. Gameplay style has nothing to do with the fact that the mod is bad.

There are so many good inscriptions to use, it's kind of a waste to use a -5/20%. Get rid of the mod. Salvage it off, sell it, make yourself some cash and improve your shield by using a much better inscription. I can understand if say, a person is new at the game and can't afford much, and it happens to be on a cheap green shield (Exalted Aegis, for example)...but really, other mods are just much more useful.

Kale and Alex's posts explain it best imo, reread their posts if you still don't understand.

MagmaRed · Apr 30, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

No the staff is not always better since you won't be able to bring the shield/focus.
The -5/20% is not a bad mod either there are plenty of other damage types in PvE so your +10 vs fire will be doing nothing a lot of the time, and your -2 enchanted requires you to have atleast 1 enchant on you all the time which isn't practical for all caster classes either.

I disagree with you on the shield info. -5/20% is bad for a caster.

Elementalist will use an Attunement and Aura of Restoration all the time (rare builds don't). This means a -2/enchant shield would work all the time.

Mesmer will use a Mantra a lot of the time, and various enchantments a lot too (Visages, Arcane Echo, etc.) so either a -2/enchant or -2/stance will work all the time.

Monk can easily run an enchantment, and should for almost all builds. -2/enchant works all the time.

Ritualist runs several different enchantments in PvE depending on the build. -2/enchant would work most of the time.

Necro runs enchantments for a lot of builds (Awaken, Orders, Aura, etc.) and would get a benefit most of the time.

Lets not forget about running a secondary too. If you are running a build without any enchantments or stances, you are probably on a team with someone who is (Monk). When you need that damage reduction, you will end up getting enchanted by the Monk (Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption, etc.).

Now, look at why -2/enchant and -2/stance would be better than -5/20%. We will assume 2 things. First, the -5/20% triggers exactly 20% of the time. Second, the caster is using a stance/enchant.

-5/20% = -10 damage over 10 hits
-2/stance = -20 damage over 10 hits
-2/enchant = -20 damage over 10 hits

Obsiously you get double the damage reduction from the stance and enchant mods. Also, you get them 100%, while the 20% may actually only trigger once every 6-7 hits.

Every caster class has several options without using a secondary for both Stance and Enchantment. I'd prefer to use those and take a risk, rather than hope the -5 triggers when I need it to.

кιωι · May 01, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

+5/20% cant be found on a wand, and many builds energy is not critical and therefore extra armour is a better idea

Apr 30, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27	#27
Elder III Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Guild: I Will Never Join Your Guild (NTY) Profession: R/	Agreed -5/20% is good for only one thing: salvage it and sell it fast for profit.

Apr 30, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50	#30
Kale Ironfist Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Australia Guild: Venatio Illuminata [VEIL] Profession: W/	I'd take a -2/enchanted because it's stronger and just as general use compared to -5/20%. There is no good reason to take a -5/20%. In PvE, it's a lot easier to manipulate the conditions such that whatever inscription you use will always trigger, and in PvP, you can create as many off-hands as you need to fit every situation.

Apr 30, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52	#31
Tyla Emo Goth Italics Join Date: Sep 2006	The -5/20% Mod is pathetic. Alex had it right on using the 10AL vs. Fire, there. Plus, the 10AL vs. Fire is cheaper. Same for -2/Enchant. And yeah, if there was no -50hp Cesta, the +5E/+20% wouldn't get used. 600HP / Smite > 55hp anyhow, and it's a stave for that mainly.

Apr 30, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48	#32
The Meth Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: R/	-5/20% is only decent if you are criminally lazy and haven't learned to weapon swap. Not coincidentally, so is sundering.

May 01, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42	#35
кιωι Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2008 Guild: [Doom] recruiting aussie/kiwi/euro for HM, PM	+5/20% cant be found on a wand, and many builds energy is not critical and therefore extra armour is a better idea